Preserving Wealth

[Newfie]

I am interested in the idea of having a sailboat as a "bug out" vehicle and am actively pursuing same. Should have the boat by Feb. 1. We are approaching retirement age and have some modest savings. So we have some "wealth" stored in cash and in investments but should the financial SHTF and the monetary system collapse, how could we hold onto it?

My question is along the lines of "If you have wealth how can you retain it if the money system collapses. The new agent would have to be highly concentrated so as to fit on a boat, widely recognized, and needed by many."

I assume that if the money system collapses then things are going to be kind of dicey in the US landside, at least in the big cities. I presume the EU would also be drastically effected. World trade would be disrupted. Presumably we would be sailing in less developed areas that are not as reliant on the current globalization structure and thus not as effected by the collapse.

Just for kicks and giggles assume you have $100,000 in current wealth and you can carry 2,000 pounds (one ton) of the stuff. So you would need something of at least $50/pound in value equivalent. ($100,000/2,000 = 50) And, remember, that in such a disruption the value of things would change a lot.

2,000 pounds of payload to devote to this "stuff." A ton of gold is $32,000,000 (2,000 pounds * 16 oz*$1000/oz.) But gold has issues. TOO concentrated, how would you chop it up? In real backwoods places it may not have any intrinsic value. How to measure it out and prove its assay.

Some things that come to mind are:

Bleach (sodium hypochlorite) in a highly concentrated form. Used to purify water. Common bleach is 3% to 6% solution.

Vitamin C - (L-ascorbic acid ) or something else to prevent/cure scurvy

Sulfuric acid, or (sulphuric acid) for batteries and other stuff

Antibiotics or ways to manufacture them.

Sail cloth - probably after some years but not right away?

Not iron or lead as they are pretty ubiquitous now.

Each of the above are problematic in one way or another. Some are pretty nasty things you don't want to get away in a boat. Some have a short shelf life.

Surely there must be better ideas, no?

[redstategreen]

I was just recently watching Lost, where a couple killed each other over a sack of diamonds, which had no value on the island. When the rest of the group buried them they sprinkled the diamonds over their corpses. It was quite ironic.

You're going to be interacting with the boating community. Network, make friends with them, have them to dinner, find out what they find valuable. The relationships you make (and the knowledge you glean from them) are more important than gold or diamonds.

[General Doom]

"If you have wealth how can you retain it if the money system collapses. The new agent would have to be highly concentrated so as to fit on a boat, widely recognized, and needed by many."

Booze and tobacco. Not that concentrated, I know, but will always be in demand.

[Thralen]

I'll mention the first few things that came to mind but one other question first. You have a weight limitation listed (1 ton) but surely you should mention space limitations as well, whatever you get cannot be too bulky either or it won't fit. On to the things that popped to mind:

1. Knowledge - Books that will be useful to you or others after TSHTF, on a sailboat you'll want them in something watertight. This brought on the space limitation question as they wouldn't be too heavy but would be bulky.

2. Silver coins, most likely US pre-1965 - As you say, to break down gold would be difficult but should you get yourself a couple of hundred dollars face value pre-1965 (probably dimes and quarters since you pay the least premium on those) you'll have well known, smallish units of something that some will still be interested in having. A couple hundred dollars face value can be gotten nowadays for approx $2600 plus S&H at today's prices (at apmex.com, two generic $100 face value bags, will probably be dimes or dimes and quarters).

3. hand tools - nuff said, especially if you have any boat repairs to make, Plus oils and whatnot to keep them in shape in ocean climate.

4. extra fishing gear - if you'll be communicating with other boaters or coastal people at all it might be a good trade item once old stuff starts breaking down, plus you can use it yourself.

5. a suggestion on how to find the items you want as opposed to an actual item - look at other sailboats, see what they stockpile. Look at the general items people are consistently purchasing in the coastal port cities. These are the areas you would contact so the items they want are the items you want to have.

6. As a last suggestion, liquor or other standard trade good ideas.

I didn't go into your own suggestions although some of them sound good. Like I said these were from the top of my head and more thought might provide more suggestions but these are some ideas to start with.

Thralen

[General Doom]

You could also look at what was traded back in the days before things were globalized.

[Newfie]

Thralen,

The bulk issues is also a limitation. So the more compact the better. It's a little harder to quantify bulk in something that people readily understand. But a ton of water would be a shade over 3x3x3.

The silver had crossed my mind as well, but I don't know if "less civilized" folks will really want to trade for it. And, it requires some knowledge to for the "buyer" to know it really is silver and not just 10 cents.

General,

Yes, looking backwards is interesting. That is where I came up with the idea of Vitamin C, to fight scurvy. Presuming that may be a problem in the future when it is more difficult to get a variety of foods.

I find this an interesting question in general, how to replace paper money and trust.

Please all, keep the suggestions coming.

[Newfie]

I've never seen this done before but I thought it might be interesting to cross pollinate some ideas. Clearly we are not the only ones thinking along these lines.

I posted a similar question on a sailing thread and got some interesting answers. I'm going to repost here. Hope this is allowed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
I really don't think so.
Every "island" is dependent on regular supply.
If not supplied, with the populations on them, most would starve.
Before starvation there would be murderous chaos.
If you are seen approaching your welcome would be very welcome indeed.
But not for your survival.

Actually the above is exactly the situation in most of the Caribbean Islands except for maybe Dominica and the Dominican Republic which are major agricultural islands. Every other island would collapse in chaos and savagery as they have no significant agriculture but plenty of guns. Even Dominica and the D.R are close enough to the other non-supporting islands that they would be quickly taken over by war-lords.
- - That leaves the lower Central American countries and South American countries, preferably the wilder, native indians regimes/areas. Basically speaking you would be screwed if total collapse happened in this hemisphere unless you could get south of the equator.

- - As to what you could carry on board in lieu of paper money in a world currency collapse - well, world-wide currency collapse is as close to not a possible event as you could get. There are lots of currencies in the world which are not dependent upon the US Dollar/Euro. As recently happened even with the collapse of trade goods markets, the US Dollar held somewhat stable. Non-trade dependent countries saw there currencies increase slightly or remain stable. Everybody else had their currencies slide down even though the source of the collapse was US generated. That whole situation will take years to analyse why and what happened. Any "worldwide" currency collapse would fall into the "total economic collapse" category and nothing physical you could fit on your boat would make any difference. Only intellectual skills (practical knowledge) and physical talents would have any value.

This discussion really swings back and forward and I'm not sure how serious this issue it is to some on this forum.
Go on, let's look at history and see if there are some clues? First I think we must accept lesson number one: Nothing is safe - everything may one day be up for grabs so the idea of insuring your meager fortune against losses is probably a futile one in a big disaster. Just live with it if your sweet papers goes down the plug-hole! I know of people in Cambodia returning to their family house only to be brutally kicked out by the new house-proud occupiers. Look what happens right now today in Zimbabwe! History is chockers with examples of a how the toy boxes gets emptied on the floor.
The only portable asset that seem to have stood the test of time is....gold - for many reasons. A god horse today cost roughly about the same amount in pure gold as good horses did when a deals were struck on woven yak-mats 5000 years ago.

Lesson number two: Use long-term knowledge in the short term. This means that paper and all sorts of I-O-U's are likely to become useless one day.
What do you really need? Stack up on lives necessities and in order they are: Shelter, protection, warmth and energy. Then use the rest to pocket as much pure gold as you may afford. The best insurance in a pinch may be an open linked gold chains so a link can easily be removed for barter and the chain closed again a bit shorter... This has worked for thousands of years and I don't think it will end in our lifetime or any time soon.

Next lesson: Shelter and warmth is a no-brainier for us cruisers sitting safe in our boats. Energy is actually primarely food and the most important lesson: We will need lots of carbohydrates like sugar, flour, rice, muesli and pasta products that may keep for years if dry. Lots of oil and spices for cooking plus tea, cacao etc for a nice good taste. Only get stuff in glass of sheet-metal packets or repack it in glass containers. Never stock anything in paper, cardboard or plastics. A short-term freeze may protect some vulnerably food from dormant insects eggs etc. Finally lots of proteins in all sorts of cans of fish, ham, beef plus milk-powder and maybe some delicious dried beef like South African beef-jerkie etc. If you can keep hens, you are laughing. Yeah, lots of supplements of course. Medicines? Yes, but don't think it will help if things go wrong. Weapons? Think twice about that because many people get killed by wepons they themselves paid for. Fishing gear is good, especially nets.
So why bother with all this stuff? Well, if you are prepared you will live to see another day and sooner then you think possible after even the worst imaginable disaster life will return to a semblance of normality and woo-ha... the game is back on again. Hope you will be there chirpy and bushy-tailed ready for the next round of play. A disaster is not just the end, it is a new beginning! Be there or be square.
Finally re the question where it would be best to sail? I think it would be best to just keep moving from place to place for as long as possible by any means, and just enjoy the ambiance maybe far out offshore.

[Thralen]

I mostly agree with the post you were quoting, the one exception being what I mentioned before. If you have just gold, nobody can make change, especially when there isn't a currency, that's why I said silver instead. I understand what you were saying about some not knowing the value so the alternative to the pre-65 coins are silver bullion rounds, stamped on them "1 troy ounce, .999 silver" I think that carrying gold coins would be akin to trying to break a $100 bill at a convenience store nowadays, not going to happen and if the wrong folks see you carrying it? You get my drift.

Along the line of the fishing gear I mentioned before. If you'll be on a boat almost all the time, but near the coast frequently then maybe the tools needed to harvest other seafoods? Clam rakes, lobster traps (probably not that one, bulky and easy to lose when using), etc...

I suppose I should've asked this question before the first recommendation: Are you talking about having this stuff just available for your own use? Or are you talking as trade goods or (most likely) a combination of the two? Who knows, a case of the really cheap water proof rain ponchos tucked away now might make you really popular in a coastal town after TSHTF. Some of them for use for yourself, some for trade. I'll wait on the answer on a stash for yourself or trade goods before adding in more ideas.

Thralen

[Newfie]

Thralen,

Trade goods. Stuff for myself is important but somewhat more obvious.

Thanks for your interest.

[Thralen]

Ok, here are a few thoughts on the matter, smaller inexpensive stuff. A ton of it would probably go over your 3X3X3 section:

Thin wire for snares
toothbrushes
hydrogen peroxide
baking soda
(possibly print a few copies of this to show people why they want the previous two items: http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... e_and.html)
sealed tins of tobacco + small rolling machines and rolling papers (rolling machines can be found for a couple bucks)
straight razors (if you can find them cheap at antique stores/flea markets/etc...)
Alcohol (as mentioned before, be sure some is graves or everclear which are almost pure alcohol and could probably be used as a disinfectant as well)
The cheapo polyester blankets that you can pick up for $1 sometimes, buy in bulk, remember some folks will be refugees and need everything.
Mess kits, army surplus or others. The ones that come with utensils or get separate utensils with them
Hand crank lanterns/radios(the ones with weather and shortwave options)/flashlights (alternatively solar)
aluminum foil in bulk, lots of uses there like solar cookers and such in addition to its normal usefulness
spices (black pepper and cinnamon come to mind as probably the most tradeworthy in the US)
bulk packs of plain white t-shirts(larger is better), sweat socks, underwear, etc...

OK, enough of that... The list could go on and on and on... Simply think, with manufacturing at a standstill, no easily convenient stores to run to, and pretty much nowhere to get the basics (never mind food) what would you miss the most when it finally ran out? Stock up on it because someone will have run out of it.

One of my favorite things to do when my wife goes to Target is to just trot back to their camping section and look for the discounted 'disposable' space blankets, ponchos, etc... Whenever they are marked down nicely I grab a few more. In addition they have some dollar aisles now, I've found the aforementioned polyester blankets in the dollar aisle a few times so have a stash of those as well.

I'm a smoker so I can tell you that there will be those who'd give anything for a cigarette by that point. Something to note, since the tax increase raw tobacco is much more expensive, when labeled as cigarette tobacco. Look through the online sites and you can find those with 'pipe tobacco' (on which the tax is much lower) that in the description says "also good for RYO" or something of the sort. Meaning you can use it as cig tobacco as well. Much cheaper to stock up on that, plus the rolling machines (Like this one: http://www.rollyourown.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=242 )are pretty cheap. Just be sure to get the matching size rolling papers.

Anyhow, I'm surprised that you haven't gotten more suggestions by now. Hope mine are at least moderately useful.

Thralen

[Newfie]

Thralen and Patience et al,

Very good suggestions, many things I would not have thought of.

The trick with silver to turn it black makes a LOT of sense.

Also, the bulk aluminum foil strikes me as very useful.

The cigarettes have some attraction but may be too obvious.

Perhaps some form of concentrated caffeine? Another "legal" drug.