The Mist - as a thought experiment

[Agentr]

There's a movie on cable now, called "The Mist"; basic horror sci/fi giant bugs come eat us thing. It revolves around a group of people surrounded by a very lethal danger outside their hiding place.

On first glance, the movie goes:
Bugs invade
People hold up in grocery store
Evangelical nut starts going all biblical prophecy doom thing
Wise, rational group of seven or so form up around a father and son
Evangelical nuts throw a bystander to the bugs as an "offering"
Rational group decides to flee, evangelical nuts try to stop them
Marksman from rational group shoots evangelical leader, allowing them to escape.
They drive for a while, see nothing but giant bugs, run out of fuel & supplies, sit, and...
then commit suicide to avoid the risk of being eaten by bugs.
Bugs die shortly thereafter
group in grocery, despondent but alive, is rescued.

Then my mind starts asking questions....

Isn't this exactly how tribal groups would form up? The rational protagonists, whom we are meant to feel empathy for, also ends up being the one who kills the most people, he refused to compete for leadership for the large group, but also refuses to support (or at least accept) the charismatic leader that did. The large group leader foolishly pursues the sentence of death as opposed to time tried sentence of banishment, and also, thus fails, suffering the inevitable result of trying to execute people who are nearly as strong as you (or your group). I also ask, why do people accept suicide as a reasonable (or even noble) response to overwhelming odds, do they really surrender life so easily? How quick are people to globalize any locally observed horror?

The more I think about it, the more I become concerned that we, as Americans (whole kettle too) have lost, or are very close to loosing some incredibly important knowledge. Do we still know how to behave with restraint and support in group sizes where our consent and support, or lack there ofm can mean the difference between life and death for us, others, or the group as a whole.

[the48thronin]

<snip>

The more I think about it, the more I become concerned that we, as Americans (whole kettle too) have lost, or are very close to loosing some incredibly important knowledge. Do we still know how to behave with restraint and support in group sizes where our consent and support, or lack there ofm can mean the difference between life and death for us, others, or the group as a whole.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=504 just a beginning of the same thoughts?

[Agentr]

Sorta, but I was thinking more along the lines of how the lead is acquired, and how people who aren't supportive of the policies of that lead, act as obstacles to the goals of the lead; and also, how the lead can become hostile to those that are indifferent to their objectives.

The other thread seems more along the lines of formed tribe vs formed tribe, "us vs them"; whereas I'm beginning to be concerned that the "us" will not meet the "them" because the "us" blew up; and the "them" blew up, before they even came in contact.

Using the movie as the experiment, both leads failed horribly, in ways that are honestly pretty realistic; modern evangelical goes way over the edge in ecstasy after coincidental encounter bolsters her resolve; rational icon decides that its more noble to kill his tribe in order to "avoid suffering" as suffering seems to be the thing most important to avoid in life, as opposed to avoiding death to this archetype. In our culture, does the rational hero know how to support or at least not be an obstacle to the evangelical lead? Does the evangelical lead know how to accept and be comfortable with the indifference of those who don't share their enthusiasm? (and vice versa) Do either know how to resolve an irreconcilable conflict without killing one, the other, or both?

[Pops]

That's interesting 'R, the first thing that pops into my head is that we Americans have gotten so far away from groups, aside from religion, that I don't know if many of us know how to go about building or even belonging in one.

There used to be civic organizations galore - Grange, Elks, Lions, Water-buffalo, and on and on. Today we have religion where you are with us or damned, politics where you are with us or un-American and damned and that's about it. Right?

Today people have little qualms about flipping off others from the safety of their 4-wheel steel cocoon, parents get into fist fights at Timmy's soccer game, gangster wannabes shoot each other for some reason or other, people discussing their almost identical ideologies on message boards devolve into turd throwing monkeys because 100% consensus isn't reached.

It seems everyone of us born on third base really do think we hit a triple.

As far as the rational vs the emotional taking the lead I'm not sure, I kind of think it's more a matter of style. President Reagan I think was an emotional leader - go with the gut and don't over think it! President Johnson I think was a rational leader and the responsibility ate him up.

It did seem strange, the Rational guy in the movie going Jim Jones, till I thought about LBJ

.
At least the Canadians have Possum Lodge:
I'm a man
But I can change
If I have to
I guess

[Ferretlover]

An interesting movie. And, the moral of it is: Don't give up too soon. You'll be sorry!

[strider3700]

totally off topic but wow. I never saw the movie but the book ends totally differently. There they continue driving resupplying along the way heading to a town that they heard the name of over the radio while in the grocery store. Pittsburg maybe. Anyways it never tells you if they made it or not it just ends having announced where they are going.

Good to see hollywood took a creepy short story and mutilated it.

[bing]

totally off topic but wow. I never saw the movie but the book ends totally differently. There they continue driving resupplying along the way heading to a town that they heard the name of over the radio while in the grocery store. Pittsburg maybe. Anyways it never tells you if they made it or not it just ends having announced where they are going.

Good to see hollywood took a creepy short story and mutilated it.

my thoughts also, the book was much better....